Podcast Episode #34 from https://nuvisionexcel.com/podcasts/episode-34/
Introduction: Hi, and welcome to Excel Radio. This is your host and high-performance expert, Dr. Nick Zyrowski. In this week’s episode, I bring on Steve Sisler. Steve is known for his unique approach in behavioral analysis. He has over 25 years of experience and has worked in 18 different nations. He helps people understand themselves so that they can have better relationships with themselves and with others. He has written seven books and has written several e-books as well. Now in this particular episode, I’m going to undergo a live psychoanalysis with Steve. I filled out the paperwork, I sent it over to him and we’re going to analyze it live on the show. Now, I’d have to say, I don’t typically do things like this; however, I find them very interesting and it gives us an opportunity to grow if there are some different challenges that you are facing and somebody can help you with them. So, let’s go ahead and dig into that and I’ll let Steve go ahead and explain all these different results that I’ve gotten on this test. Steve, welcome to the show.
Steve: Good to be here. Thanks.
Dr. Z: So, Steve, in your own words, could you tell the listeners who you are and what you do?
Steve: Okay, well I’m a behavioral analyst or you could say behavioral profiler. What I do is I put people through a number of different assessments, between two and three, depending upon what they’re after. After that, I receive a set of numbers. There are about 11 numbers that come in and I look at those numbers and it tells me where their emotions are set on a scale dealing with primary emotions, four primary emotions, and then seven different attitudes. Once I have those measurements, I’m going to know how they act, how they think, why they think that way and now we’re able to really discuss what kind of change are you wanting in your life or what’s getting in your way.
Dr. Z: Okay, so once you develop what’s going on, how do you use this to start changing somebody’s life?
Steve: Well, some people, they’re not really clued in on to why they do what they do or maybe they don’t know what to do in the world. So my goal is to help them understand how they’re wired. So if you’re a basketball and you’ve been working in a football game, now we’re going to know why it ain’t working. If you’re a football and you’re in a football game, you’re likely not going to call me. But you see, it’s not a bad ball, it’s a wrong ball. So, change games and now the basketball’s terrific. So people are wired a certain way and in relationships where there are differences in personality type, then they see the world differently. We don’t see people as they are; we see them as we are.
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: And if we don’t understand what we are in accordance to how they are, we don’t know the difference, then we keep running into problems. So being able to break this down and give them really a blueprint on how their brain works, then they can easily…I mean if you’re an all-terrain vehicle, it’s no wonder you’re bored driving down the highway and so if I explain, “Oh my God here’s how you are, here’s how your car is built.” “You mean then I can drive down into the Grand Canyon?” “Absolutely!” “Well, no wonder I’ve been having dreams like that.” You see what I mean? It’s that kind of a thing. It’s really setting you up for success in the world based upon your style. The better we get into the position of doing what we are, the less work we have to do in the world.
Dr. Z: I find that there are some people who don’t understand these things but they don’t want to understand these things as well. They don’t really want to understand themselves because they’re afraid they’re going to find out there’s a problem. Is that something that you come across?
Steve: Those people don’t call me. So, no. I work with people who really want to do something different, make a difference. They want to know how they’re wired. They want to know how their employees are wired because it’s important to them. I work with mostly entrepreneurs in 18 different countries and everybody’s got their upside and everybody’s got their downside. So I’m able to tell you both sides and put all your eggs in this basket and you’ll have a better time of it. In other words, some people want to be an entrepreneur but they shouldn’t be because they’re not wired for it but they keep trying and they keep running into brick walls and so eventually I talk to them. I’ve talked people out of jobs, out of positions, out of entrepreneurialism, whatever it is just because they’re not wired for it and they’ve needed permission to know, permission to get out. So, if you’re a tomato, find a salad. If you’re a hammer, find a toolbox. Don’t throw the hammer in the salad.
Dr. Z: Right, right. So then if you were to go into a company, then and you were to see a lot of strife between the employees, people are not really getting along, the boss doesn’t understand the employees, the employees don’t understand the boss and then that’s where you come in and you’re able to actually help all of them understand why there is this broken relationship between them and how they can actually all grow as one if they could just understand each other better.
Steve: That’s right. Absolutely. So we basically put all the skunks on the table and dissect them. When you go through my process, it’s like going through an emotional MRI machine. If you’re wired for sprinting, why are you in a marathon, you see? Typically, people, when they hire people, they have a job that needs to be done, they’re looking for a body to do it but what they’re never looking at is how this person is wired. Are they even wired for that type of job? What are they wired to do, not what are you asking them or telling them to do. Work is like a big peg-board with different shaped pegs. You got to get all the right pegs in the right holes for it to be synergetic and working but what do we do? We get a mallet and we hammer whatever peg we got into a hole we need filled. That’s what people do as a rule and the companies that want to be more successful…I’ve had companies work with me and change the dynamics and they’re up 40% in 18 months simply because they got everybody in the right seat in the right bus. So, it’s really important to some; some people, they could care less but I don’t work with them. My goal is to help the people that want to be helped and to maximize their potentials based upon their behavioral dynamics.
Dr. Z: That’s interesting. So in the companies you typically work with everybody or do you just work with, let’s say, the executive team or is it really crucial…I’m trying to figure out, is it crucial to work with everybody to make it work or is it just crucial maybe for the executive team to jive well?
Steve: That’s right. So, no, not necessarily everybody. I had one company I was working with for four years. I profiled over 300 employees as they came into the organization and was growing pretty quickly. They just sold for $600 million, by the way, but I helped them establish the right people in the right place for the culture and so forth. We actually created a cultural profile for them. In other words, this is our culture, how do these people fit the culture before they even come in here? Yeah, I deal with first, the owner and then I work my way down to the C level team and then management but rarely do I go any further unless we have to. Sometimes we do. Then every new hire they bring in, they go through the process so that we’re bringing in the right people that will fit the culture because it’s all about what you do, who you do it with and who you do it for and all those bells are whistling and ringing. It’s a very powerful synergetic process where people are getting along much better because they understand the differences.
Dr. Z: So that’s a good example of a company setting and that’s really interesting and I think that a lot of the entrepreneurs who listen to this show are going to find that pretty fascinating and they’re going to have to reach out to you but let’s bring this to a different level of, let’s say, father and son, mother and daughter, just a family dynamic. How does this work in that regard?
Steve: Okay, I just got off the phone with a woman who sent her daughter at age 15 to an all-girls special school for, basically, rebels. Just too much trouble in the relationship and so I did the profiles and got off the phone with them this morning. Wow. The daughter was what I call a gypsy-spirited person. The goal of that particular daughter’s brain, you have to remember, we are our brain, okay? You’re stuck with your brain, how’s your brain wired. This girl’s brain is an independent. The mother is a dependent and so the mother acted like the state police and the daughter acted like a criminal but it doesn’t mean that the daughter’s a criminal or the mom’s a cop. What it means is that’s how the brains are working and they didn’t really realize it. The mother just thought the daughter was a pain so that was a real problem but we solved it in 60 minutes.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: That relationship’s going to blossom now and I said to the mother, “Are you willing to make concessions understanding now how your daughter’s wired?” She said, “Are you kidding me? Absolutely.”
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: Because I know it’s going to better our relationship which they’re both starving for.
Dr. Z: Okay, so they basically had to learn how to understand each other. Once they understood each other and maybe the mother understood how to lead the daughter in a way that the daughter could comprehend and agree with?
Steve: Absolutely. So, in other words, the daughter’s only 16 now so you got to kind of go down to her level. Her brain’s got another ten years before it’s fully developed so you got to give her a break, and the daughter needs to understand how the mom is wired and why she’s wired that way and if they love each other and they care about each other, then it qualifies you to then, on the behalf of another person, it’s just like in work or in family, it’s love that qualifies us to speak the truth. So if I’m consulting with you and you know I really care about you, qualifies me to say anything I want to you because you know the reasons why I’m doing it are pro-you.
Dr. Z: Gotcha.
Steve: So, that’s very important.
Dr. Z: Very interesting. Okay, well one of the things that we did here is I’ve filled out all the information to do a behavioral analysis of me right on the show. So what Steve is going to do is he’s going to go through it and we’re going to figure out all the things about me that will make me grow once I know. So, hopefully, since we’re doing this live, it’s in my favor a little bit.
Steve: Okay, cool. So you’re ready to go?
Dr. Z: Yeah, let’s do this.
Steve: Okay, so what we’re going to look at quickly here and again, typically this is a 90-minute debrief which, obviously, we’re not going to do and I’m going to really skip on the mountain tops here so I’m going to just cover some of the highlights for you. There are two different orientations here. There is a concealed behavioral chart I’m looking at which is basically, your default style. It’s not something you think about and it’s completely unconscious, okay? It’s how your brain has navigated all the environments you find yourself in over the years including school, your home life, work, whatever and while we’re in these environments, our brains want to negotiate that environment in an effort to survive and succeed in it, okay?
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: So that’s what we’re going to look at first then we’re going to look at your adapted behavior which is what we call “intended behavior.” It’s what you’re doing on purpose and so it’s so, it’s not your natural way. It’s what you believe you need to do to survive and succeed in your immediate environment. Basically, with you, it’ll be your work life and what you’re doing most of the day. This is kind of how you do it because you believe this is the best course of action you need to take for success. Looking at your natural style, I could see you did analyze it because you crunched your numbers which means, you were over-thinking the instrument while you were doing it which is what you do, you got a freakin’ PhD. You can’t help that so I see that you did do that.
Dr. Z: I did do that.
Steve: Yup, but it didn’t skew my results.
Dr. Z: Okay, good.
Steve: Because I can read through it. Now, as a rule, you are somewhat of a visionary, okay? So you have what we would call a future brain. You’re thinking forward, not backward which means you’re thinking about an opportunity on its way rather than something that didn’t go right last time. So you tend to think forward so you’re anticipating what could be as opposed to dwelling on what was, as a rule. You have a high degree of flexibility in your brain, meaning you’re impatient and so, what that creates is a need to change direction and have problems and challenges. Your profile is in need of problems and challenges and you might create them in order to have them.
Dr. Z: Interesting.
Steve: So, if they’re not happening, you might be kick-starting them without realizing it.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: It’s like climbing the more difficult mountain so that when you get done climbing it you can say you did as opposed to taking the easy way, if that makes sense to you.
Dr. Z: That makes perfect sense.
Steve: You’re super competitive but not because you’re competitive. You’re competitive because your self-esteem is low and what I mean by that is, when you do something and then you complete the task, you look at it and likely, your first thought is you could have done it better. Is that true?
Dr. Z: That is true, yes.
Steve: And the reason why you do that is because you didn’t think you did it good enough the first time. Now that’s because when you look at yourself, you’re not optimistic. You’re very demanding so you’re what we call a “self-starter” or an “initiator”. You are an engine that puts the plane in the air but you’ll get bored keeping it there. So you might have a lot of starts and stops. You start something and then you’re into it, you do the heavy lifting and now it’s easy, so you’re bored. You’re looking for challenge and opportunity and if you don’t have it, you need it and so you are on your adapted star, your intended behavioral style, about 2% of the population. Not a lot of you around. You have what’s called the “taking” orientation. Your brain believes that everything you desire lies outside yourself and if you want it, you got to go take it, okay? So people that are sitting around waiting for jobs to come back to the U.S so they can get one, you’re wondering what’s wrong with those people.
Dr. Z: True.
Steve: See, you’re thinking, “Well just go get one.”
Dr. Z: Exactly.
Steve: See, well, their orientation isn’t a “taking” orientation, it’s a “waiting” orientation. So their brain believes everything they desire outside themselves. Somebody is going to show up and basically, gift it to me. So those are the people that have a hard time finding work so they’re trying to network, they’re talking to someone, “Could you talk to that guy? Maybe he can get me in there”, rather than going and knocking on the door yourself which is what you would do. So you take what you believe belongs to you while there are other people in the world that don’t do that, they hope somebody shows up with it in their driveway.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: So if we understand what’s going on, you’re going to see that person likely as lazy because if you did that, you’d think you were lazy.
Dr. Z: True.
Steve: But what it is, is it’s a different way of thinking in the world. That’s nothing to do with lazy. They’re actually working as hard as they can at waiting and so we have to understand that. So, your style is a core style, it’s a taking style. You also need to control your own space. So you want authority that’s equal to or greater than whatever your responsibility is so you need to own something. So even if you work for somebody else, in your brain, it’s your business and you’re borrowing their building. So you think in terms of what you own and what you can control. Do you have a family?
Dr. Z: Yes, I do.
Steve: Okay, so you likely married a stabilizer; somebody who gets in the canoe, sits down, puts on a life jacket, sticks an oar in the water. The odds are really good that’s what you did and we haven’t previously talked about this. You don’t even sit down when you get in the canoe. You destabilize the environment. So, the stabilizer has to hold on to keep the canoe from turning over. If you’re having a discussion with your wife and tell me if I’m off, but I’m going to guess because the odds are about 82% that you’re going to do this. If your wife says, “Let me tell you what went wrong today” in her life, in a situation and you’re listening, within one minute, you know how to fix it.
Dr. Z: That sounds about right.
Steve: The next thing that happens in your brain is you can’t wait to tell her.
Dr. Z: Right, right.
Steve: So that this doesn’t happen again.
Dr. Z: Yeah, no. That sounds pretty accurate right there.
Steve: So you have a difficult time listening in order to understand but it’s easy to listen so you can direct and control.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: Because you have a directing and controlling brain. Not because you like to control people. Your brain is wired for direction and controlling so if you can direct and control or agree or disagree, you’re good but if you have to sit down and understand it and listen and just say, “Oh, that’s terrible”, it’s like sitting on an anthill in your underwear. You just do not want to do that. You want to say, “Hey, listen. I’ve got a great idea. If you do this, this and this, you can avoid that next time and then you won’t be bothering me with pointless conversations.”
Dr. Z: Right, right. So that’s more about finding solutions, offering solutions so that we can avoid issues in the future.
Steve: You’re a fixer. You are a fixer and so you also are likely going to be suspicious of somebody who takes up your time. In other words, “Are you doing this to annoy me or..”, like that’s likely where your brain begins. In other words, people tend to be guilty until proven innocent. Now that sounds bad but it’s not. What it means is you, as a rule, keep an emotional distance from people. You don’t put all your eggs in anybody’s basket. If I want to get to know you, let’s say, really get to know you in a very deep, vulnerable level, it’s going to be like trying to break into a car that’s armed. You’re not the convertible with the top down and the keys in it. You’ve got a club on the steering wheel, you got a tracking device, you got the light blinking on the dashboard red that says, “Touch the car and there’s an alarm that’s going to go off.” So, I’m likely going to feel that when working with you. In other words, I get so far but I don’t ever get all the way in. You have to qualify to be in there with your brain and most people won’t qualify. This is because your style is direct and control, not, “What do you need me to do?” It’s more, “Let me tell you how we should probably do this.”
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: Makes sense? So your brain likes to call the shots, be in charge of itself, be in charge of your own space so if I enter your space, then you’re in charge of me too, by default. Your profile says you’re a person who doesn’t want to do anything unless you’re getting something out of it. So if you’re not getting anything back for your efforts and your time, then you’re likely aren’t going to get involved in it.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: Are we making sense?
Dr. Z: No, this makes sense. Yeah, it’s making me think. I’m on this other end listening and really thinking.
Steve: And you’re an extreme pragmatist. In other words, you’re very, very practical. “Hey dude, we should paint the office.” You’re like, “Why? Is that going to make us money?”
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: See what I mean? “Why would I ever do that, that seems like a waste of time for me because I’m not getting anything out of it, it’s actually costing me time and money. There’s no ROI.” That’s how your brain works. So you’re in this world only to get what’s yours, okay? So typically, these end up entrepreneurial people. These people end up wanting to be in a situation where they call their own shots, work by their own schedule, do their own thing and everybody has to fall in line if you’re around me. You might surround yourself with “yes” people just so it makes it easier to accomplish your goals. So if I’m going to argue with you, you’re not going to have time for that and again you might think, “Gee, this doesn’t sound like you’re painting a very good picture.” It has nothing to do with that, it’s how your brain works and so when you see the world, you see opportunity. When you see the world, you see space that you can fit yourself into and then control. As you go about the world, that’s what you’re looking to do and if I can help you get there and help you do that, that I’m going to be a good teammate for you but if I’m going to resist you, disagree with you and all that, no, it ain’t gonna work. So you need to be in a situation where you are your own boss.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: And when you are, you will feel better. Your brain will feel better because you’re not dependent on somebody else, you’re independent of them and able to work with them but not subject to them and that really works well for you. Is that making sense to you?
Dr. Z: Yeah, that makes sense.
Steve: Okay, now, a couple more things. You really understand how your decisions, choices are going to affect other people so this is going to help you with the fact that you want to do what you want to do. So remember I said earlier you see people as guilty until proven innocent because you have very, very powerful clarity about how your decisions are affecting other people, it removes the curse from it. So even though you might be thinking, “What a moron”, you’re not going to say it. You’re going to really word things in a way because you’re going to be very discreet, very intuitive and keenly perceptive and you do it this way every single time you make a decision that involves other people. Your practical thinking score is pretty powerful. In other words, if I ask you to go find me a dog at the pound for my four and six year old and you get there and there are 20 different breeds and they’re all puppies, odds are really good you’re going to come home with the best dog for the kids because you don’t only see the beginning, you see the end. So if you’re looking at a baby pit-bull, you’re likely not going to take it home because you know it’s going to be a big one soon. You see the beginning but you also see the end. Some people are like, “Oh my God, he’s so cute” and bring it home and then later it eats the kid. You’re going to think beyond that, towards the end so you’re what we call a “doer” in the sense that you are a person who is very practical in your thinking. So you have what we call strong, intuitive insight. It’s an excellent ability to rely on what your gut is telling you for solving problems. You also have a strong sense of persistence which means you never give up, you stay on course no matter what happens so you’re like relentless. You’re extremely results-oriented, you don’t endeavor to go into it if you don’t think you’re going to get something out of it, I had mentioned that. You also are very proactive and have strong conceptual thinking. You’re a little bit unconventional, meaning, you have this way of thinking outside the box. Couple more things. When it comes to rules, you understand rules, you understand rules matter and you’re very structured in your thinking. In other words, you might be thinking it’s tight but it’s right. So you’re a very black and white thinker. You think in terms of either-or more than you think in terms of both end so rather than being the person that goes, “Well, we could do this or if you’re really daring, we could do that”, you’re like, “Here’s what we’re going to do.”
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: Just, boom! You already know and if somebody disagrees with it and has some more creative way of doing it, you likely will be, “No. We’re not doing that” because you basically have two options; this or that, not, “We could do any of this ten, just don’t screw it up.” You think like a Math teacher. There’s a formula and there’s a way to work that to a conclusion so show your work and we’ll be good. That’s how your brain…so you’re what we call “left brain analytical.” It’s a structured mind. Interesting, your role awareness right now, you’re like in what we call, “social role transition.” I don’t think you’re quite sure what you’re doing in the world at the moment. It’s like you haven’t landed that airplane.
Dr. Z: Okay. Explain that a little bit.
Steve: So, who are you, why are you here, what is your goal, what are you doing right now, what’s your title? If I ask you these questions, then you’d probably be subject to errors in judgment in your answer because I think the jury is still out with you.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: You’re not clued into your destiny. You’re probably still waiting to get a couple more signs, okay? “Where are you going?” I don’t think you know where you’re headed. “Where’s your future?”, “Where are you going to be in five years?” I bet you don’t go, “Here” but you have an intense need to arrive. It’s like this, “I need to be at a restaurant at 3 o’clock on Friday.” Well, unfortunately, you don’t have a GPS so what’s happening with you is you’re likely your brain is taking one day at a time so that it’s unfolding into the future rather than knowing, “This is where I’m going to be in five years, “X” marks the spot.” Some people know. You have a visible score which means you know some of it but you don’t know all of it.
Dr. Z: Right. I would have to agree with that because the way I look at it is to just take it one day at a time but I want to leave it open because I don’t know what opportunities lie ahead of me and I feel like if I have a very specific goal in place that I plan on arriving at, I might miss something, I guess, you can say.
Steve: So whatever the reason is, the jury is always out. It’s never, “We got a conviction.” So you don’t have a conviction about what you’re doing, you have a preference because you leave the door open for opportunity and personal gains that could come out of nowhere because if it does, you’re likely going to switch trains, you see? So you can’t seal this deal. So if I was hiring somebody for a company and you came in the door and I ran you through this, I looked at it, I’d tell the people, “Okay, basically, Nick is going to try this out but if this ain’t it, he’s not going to stay.” “Well, we want somebody long term”, “Yeah, well, I don’t know what to tell you, if he gets a better offer in six months, he’s liable to take it.” If I had another profile that looked differently, I’m like, “This person believes this is his destiny.” This role is their destiny. I just did one today and they hired that person and so he believes this is in the cards on my way to my destiny. You’re like, “We’ll see what happens.”
Dr. Z: That’s a good thing I fall in an entrepreneurial category otherwise I might never be a good hire, huh?
Steve: That’s why you’re in the category you’re in because you don’t have time to deal with all that nonsense. You see what happens? Your brain paves your way and so you’re where you are because of who you are. So, you’re right and you wouldn’t like it if stupid people were telling you what to do. Guess what? That happens a lot in corporations.
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: So, it just wouldn’t be good for you. You’re always thinking, “I won’t fire me.”
Dr. Z: Right, right.
Steve: So that’s kind of a nutshell version, real quick, cut and dirty of your profile but we could talk about it for two hours but anyway, so knowing this about you…
Dr. Z: Yeah, where do we go?
Steve: Well, it depends. What you want to do, who you want to do it with, who do you want to do it for? As you can see, all of a sudden, what if you’re working with somebody and they’re very passive, they’re a conflict avoider and they never tell you where they stand on the issues. That’s not going to work. So, if I’m looking at this profile and I’m looking at that profile and that person’s your manager or you’re their boss, there’s going to be some tension points, you see? So what will happen is, you’ll end up just controlling the situation for them, telling them what they need to do even if it’s your boss. Your profile’s like the guy who calls up the doctor and goes, “Yeah, got some mucus, last time you gave me this med, why don’t we go ahead and get a refill.” So you basically call the doctor up and then tell him how to do his job.
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: Rather than, “I’m not sure but this is what I feel like, I don’t know what to do” and then wait for the doctor to tell them and then they do exactly what he says.
Dr. Z: Okay, I got you. I thought I just did that because I was a doctor but not because…
Steve: No, no. Even if you weren’t a doctor, you would do that which may be why you’re a doctor. It’s the way you are so now you’re in a role where you get to do that not only for you but for everybody else. You’re not a doctor because you like doctoring, you’re likely what you are because your profile demands it. Your brain demands you calling the shots, not somebody else and it did that before you became a doctor. It’s why you did it. See? I went into a bank to the bank I use when I lived in Massachusetts and ended up profiling all the bank staff and one of the girls in there was just a teller and I said, “You will run your own bank in less than two years.” She was like, “What?!” She was running her own bank in one year. Just like that. I can see it in the cards.
Dr. Z: That’s pretty incredible.
Steve: There was another girl there, I looked at her profile in front of the HR manager before I ended up doing everybody this is why they told me to do everybody, and I said, “Interesting, when are you quitting?” She goes, “Oh my God. Saturday.” I saw it in the profile. She was done there and she had just quit and Saturday, was going to another branch several towns away.
Dr. Z: This is interesting. So you derive this from the profile, the same type of profile you did with me or was it a little bit different?
Steve: Yes. No, same one.
Dr. Z: See, that’s very interesting because, just to give you some insight on it, there’s no way in a million years that I would derive that from that profile. There were no questions like, “Are you happy in your job?” or anything like that. It was nothing like that, so that’s very fascinating that you’re able to pull this stuff out of that because, to be honest with you, I even told you how…just from all the test taking strategy classes I’ve taken over the years in order to get through boards, I’ll try to manipulate stuff and, like I said, I specifically tried not to with your test, however, the thing is that, about your test as well, is that a lot of stuff I really didn’t have any clue where it was going or what it meant, you know what I mean? So it was hard for me to even think that way because, like I said, there weren’t direct questions in many cases and so anyway, that’s very interesting and fascinating you can derive so much information from the way that the test was actually performed. It was very unconventional in my opinion.
Steve: Yeah. Well, I’ve profiled friends in the past, I did somebody about seven years ago and I could tell their mate was cheating on them just by looking at the graph.
Dr. Z: Wow, really?
Steve: Yeah, oh yeah. Do it all the time.
Dr. Z: It’s unbelievable.
Steve: Yup and so when I’m in a corporation, I see all kind of things but I can’t say all that but I see all kinds of things. I’m a master at doing this and some of it is a gift, obviously. Not everybody who runs a particular assessment…most people that sell assessments, that’s all they do. I build them. I know human behavior really well. Let me ask you a question. I need an honest answer. About ten minutes back, were you getting slightly, a little uncomfortable as I was talking thinking, “Where is he going and what is he going to say next?”
Dr. Z: I always get uncomfortable when people talk about stuff like this.
Steve: Okay, because you touched your body above your shoulder line six times.
Dr. Z: Oh, wow.
Steve: And that told me to slow down and to back off because I was treading on thin ice.
Dr. Z: For me, and this is probably a part of something you realize but, sometimes it hurts. It hurts when somebody’s sitting there telling you who you really are, you know what I mean?
Steve: I knew right in the moment when it happened.
Dr. Z: Right, because…
Steve: You see it on your face instantly.
Dr. Z: And that’s why I had asked you, I said, “Do some people just not do this?” because for me, I can understand enough that I might not like the results of it but it’s who I am and it will help me become a better person, however, there’s a lot of people who will say, “I’m not doing that” or people who are like me who will say, “I’m not doing that because it will categorize me as x, y, and z and that’s not who I am and I want to be who I want to be.”
Steve: Yup. I just did a company where I profiled 50 managers. They flew me out there and we put them in a room and I did a whole presentation on human behavior, the brain and then I selected different people out of the crowd and just read their mail right in front of everybody. It’s just really fun but there was one individual that refused to do it and when we got engaged into the meeting, he left. Now the only reason why he was able to get away with that is because the company is depending on him so basically, the company works for him. So when I sat down with HR, I pointed it out. She was like, “Yup.”
Dr. Z: Yup, that’s the way it is.
Steve: Yup and for whatever reason, there’s too much fear in cutting that cord but it would change the face of the organization if they did it.
Dr. Z: Right. I agree.
Steve: The hardest part of my job is when I know something and no one will take my advice because they’re afraid, they don’t understand because by nature, humans are against what they don’t understand or they get too uncomfortable or whatever but my clients, basically, they have no problem looking in the mirror naked.
Dr. Z: Okay, gotcha.
Steve: Those are the clients I have and we do great things together but that’s the way it has to be with something like this. Remember, there’s no wrong way to be.
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: So when we say, “I want to be a better person”, what we’re really saying is we want to learn to capitalize on who we are rather than having it maybe work against us in some way but you can’t say looking at your profile and everything I looked at, there’s anything wrong with that, there isn’t.
Dr. Z: Right.
Steve: It’s not about that.
Dr. Z: Right and I think that, like I said, deep down we, maybe, want to be a certain way sometimes; however, the reality is what it is and that’s who you are and knowing that can make you a better person but like I said, I find that this type of stuff always kind of makes me a little bit squirmish because it does put me in an uncomfortable situation sometimes just because, like I said, you look at that and you’re like, “Oh man, am I really that person?” For me, I often times think it can be a bad thing but like you said, it’s not. There’s no such thing as a bad thing and deep down I guess I know that and that’s why I do these sorts of things and I’m willing to do this live for our audience but it doesn’t change the fact that sometimes I don’t really like it and I think that’s that way for many people and I guess you’d know that better than myself.
Steve: Oh yeah. I had a guy recently I profiled, he’s one of the number one organ transplant surgeons in the country.
Dr. Z: Okay.
Steve: And he’s Indian nationality, very caring person but had a very funny way of showing it and so, he was having difficulty with the hospital staff and even being employed in a particular hospital, had to basically go do something else and it’s because he cared so much about the survival of the patient that his behavior was received in very negative ways by people who were more passive because remember, most nurses are passive because they’re helpers. Statistically, 98,000 people die at the hands of a doctor because the nurse won’t say anything.
Dr. Z: Wow.
Steve: Because the doctor is dominant and the nurse is passive and so, those situations call for knowing yourself, understanding yourself, being okay with it, with you who are and who you’re not. Knowing who you are is great, knowing who you’re not is even greater. So, really, this is about understanding our wiring and how we function in the world and then making sure we’re in a place where we can function this way and it works really well for all involved. That’s the goal of all of us. It’s a process getting there.
Dr. Z: Really appreciate you coming on and sharing this information with people and doing this live with me, because at the end of the day, it’s really to help other people, to help them become who they want to be and understand their body and understand their psychology so that they are just living a better life all around. Appreciate you coming on and sharing this and using me as a patient, live on the show and kind of opening up all the details so that’s good.
Steve: Absolutely. I really appreciate you having me on and give me the opportunity to share with your listeners. The pleasure was mine.
Dr. Z: Awesome, Steve. Well, thank you and once again, appreciate having you on.